had the same reaction to the Sandra Tanners interview. Thanks again for your contribution to Mormon Studies and particularly for your diplomatic engagement with your critics. You know, guilt by association. The irony is, I wasnt an activist for anything, I simply wanted to write. But I have a question for Brent. Hi, was wondering if Brent is still available to respond to my train of thought above? [9] According to Metcalfe, he had written a letter to LDS Church leader Gordon B. Hinckley, disputing the grounds for his termination. Thanks again Brent, no wonder you have had the experience you have shared with your faith about God. Roger that. Those mind-opening essays impacted my life in positive and powerful ways. As Jeremy Runnells (a la Kirby Ferguson) has said, everythings a remix. What is not to love about Johns revelation of your worthy biceps? They even go so far as to claim that Zarahemla was directly across the river from Nauvoo, and that the waters of mormon are Big Springs, MO. Brent Metcalf, who has been through personal tragedy, triumph and uncertainty can now call himself a national champion. I appreciate the details of Brents experience. And much was going on. The insight into the many corners of Mormonism important to us here was delicious. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Brent Metcalfe, Sue's husband of 23 years, is doing everything he can to support both Sue and Samantha. Thanks! When?? I think we ought to be okay with these questions, and not automatically defensive. I struggled in school with learning how to read for years and this resulted in me developing crippling anxiety any time I was aced to read in public. I have heard that Mac Christianson financed the mission of one of Hofmanns sons. And great questions John. Unintended consequences here we come! These scholars included Dan Vogel, Stan Larson, David P. Wright, and John Kunich. St. Martins Press. I suppose the precedent was set by Joseph himself in burning down the Nauvoo Expositor because he didnt like the content, and labelled it anti Mormonit wasnt even, William Law was a believer, who could no longer take Josephs hypocrisy. brent metcalfe excommunicated. Boy, what a chilling conclusion. Do you still attend LDS church? Simply put, I think JSs BoAbr project is an example of JSs *sincerity*, not his fraudulence. pigella miraculous ladybug power. fireside chat september 3, 1939 summary . And how was it working with Mr. Ritner? It is his sixth season overall with the Cyclones after serving as the volunteer assistant for the 2017-18 season. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. We have to learn to get along and improve our conditions wherever we are and it is a much more difficult task because of all the varied belief systems prevalent in the world. I do not have that ability as I actually changed an Economics major when I took my first accounting class. Three or four episodes were mentioned by John. Please let us know. Afraid that Brent would go public with the contradictory information, the LDS church terminated him as a member. The confessionals in the documentary of Hofmann's associates, such as Shannon Flynn, Brent Metcalf and George Throckmorton are captivating. It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. As someone told him, You didnt have a crisis of faith but a Failure of Faith. My good friend Matt Christensen digitized the 7th East Press and was kind enough to allow Signature Books to make it available on their incredible digital library. ), Visitation of Hertfordshire 1572 & 1634 (London, 1886), 116. However, they still mention other things in their presentations (if you can stand to listen to them; I dont particularly like Jake Hiltons rhetoric, but Wayne May is pretty interesting to listen to)that are pretty fascinating and almost convincing. We may be on our own and need to create our own justice and future, but its possible that Providence does in fact sometimes intervene. If you were to interview Mark Hofmann, what would your top questions be? D&C 76:2021). After that day I moved to the back of the class and felt like the only straight A student retard at BYU. Priestly and monastic vocations have dropped through the floor, sexual abuse has skyrocketed (its not just that it was always happening but was exposed recently, it is pretty clear that sex abuse itself has gone way up post Vatican II), church attendance is way down, retention rates among youth have plummeted- one could go on. In fact, it may just be possible that I stood right next to Brent during our official kick off meeting, when Elbert invited his brother Lyle to give us all a magic show. I believe Brent said he has the copy in his records.**. Not everyone who doubted the authenticity of Hofmanns forgeries did so for valid and sound reasons. This doesn't mean that Metcalfe has accurately translated that theory into his study of things Mormon. Im with you on the music Charles!! I thought Brents response to this question very touching and informative and dont see that his research should be discredited. Looking around me, every object was changed, and a bright glory appeared on everything. A scene from John Dehlin's upcoming disciplinary council, probably. What about your book did the church find cause to excommunicate you? I still remember the demo you and your friends gave in the Rec Hall for Mutual. hillside christian church staff/ brent metcalfe excommunicated Create a Word Cloud at Tagxedo.Com. So yes, Brent, please comment on this phenomenon. So, based on Krakauers shared experience, it sounds like the answer is no, Hofmann doesnt do interviews. These other people that had experiences dont seem to have a similar backlash evident. Netflixs Murder Among the Mormons is a limited series that profiles the exploits of Mark Hofmann, who planned and executed a deadly event in Salt Lake City, Utah, that left the Latter-day Saints Church shaken to its very core. About a year or so ago when I finally left the church I looked him up to get advice and catch up on old times. Its great to find all this background information. [4] His supervisor removed the probation, but on April 8 Metcalfe's employment was terminated. I am quite sure, that film is no longer shown. Other early-19thC religionists were even more literal in their descriptions. Its a pity Joseph Smith couldnt sit them all down for a good coming-to-Jesus admonishing. What a fascinating glimpse. Can you offer any insight to this? On acquiring a PhD, after a year of university, apart from a lack of finances, I quickly noticed that the degree factory isnt a reflection on ones intelligence. I am waiting patiently for part 3. See the next John Whitmer Historical Association Journal for one of my essays. Until Vatican II, many scholars felt hamstrung by the churchs dogma on the Bible and related theological issues. Are you generally satisfied with the way the Mark Hofmann affair has been portrayed in the media and in the various books? So sorry for the delay!!!! Excellent question. If Catholicism were ultimately true, for example, then in the final accounting its dogmatic claims would not be hamstringing- they would serve as a clarifying lens through which to analyze historical questions, a lens which helps the believing scholar from wasting his time investigating a false path. How would it be different from other books that deal with the same subject? That was fascinating, thank you. [7] The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. Lex, the recommendation by Andrew is a good resource. What an amazing story that Brent was a participant. 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. How was Christensen reimbursed or rewarded by the Church for his document ventures? Has been quite a while since you had a podcast that wasnt left of center. brent metcalfe excommunicatedperpetual futures binance. I remember being troubled by the lack of divine discernment that the brethren have/had. This book was way above my reading level at the time and I wonder if that may be the biggest hurdle in reaching standard Mormons about the book and its challenges. What are your views on how the Book of Mormon was created? There was an overall feeling that he just had it together. Looking forward to the interview! So cool that you provided some of the research used by Michael Quinn. We should also mention that he has since been a key speaker at a conference hosted by Ex-Mormon Foundation and has given several interviews where he has detailed his lifes ups and downs. Azerbaijan's Jabrayil Hasanov in action against The USA's Brent Metcalf. Thanks again Brent! I think that the LDS churchs main competitor in the marketplace of ideas is not a bigger tent more liberal church, its Agnosticism/atheism. Signature Books. Im not saying you need to have spiritual experiences to validate your work by any means if the facts are facts, but a higher power confirmation always helps. [4] Metcalfe assisted Hofmann in leaking the existence of the letter to the press, contrary to the wishes of the LDS Church. This is a rumor I heard. She also noted that after JS none of the preceding Church leaders really got what he was trying to do/teach in this realm. I have question on the Book of Abraham. Heres a link to the Deseret News write up on the presentation: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. Hibbard later had a dream in which he again. An anonymous source reported that Roy Doxey, then the director of church correlation, wanted to know about the papers Metcalfe was studying at the Church Historical Library, which were on Elias Smith and others. I have to assume hes simply speaking on the basis of snippets of information here and there without context, because this is clearly untrue. What is your spirtuality/worldview like post-Mormonism? The view of the Lamb on mount Sion gave me joy unspeakable and full of glory. Ive always wondered if my church record was blighted in some way. In 1994, Professor David Wright of Brandeis University and editor Brent Metcalf were excommunicated for their scripture studies in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology In 1995, author Janice Allred was excommunicated for her writings about Mother in Heaven. Mark Metcalfe Project Manager - Heavy Lift Division at Western Mechanical Electrical Millwright Services Ltd. Kitchener, Ontario, Canada 500+ connections [5][6], According to the Deseret News, the response from the apologetic community was "vitriolic. Don't miss. "Mark deceived everyone," Co-director Jared Hess told Deseret News. I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. This has to be one of my top 10 favorite Mormonstories podcasts. This was an important, affecting interview. Did John take the tapes home to show his wife? I am still cringing from the realizations about the lack of discernment and the deliberate efforts on the part of the GAs. On the latest episode of Mormon Book Reviews Steven Pynakker interviews one of the most important scholars of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe. Shortly after returning home and leaving the church he was very active in Sunstone and various things of that nature, but has since moved on with his life and seems very happy with a small family of his own running a small restaurant he and his older brother own together. I always enjoyed our discussions years ago about your love for the Indians in your mission and then your experience doing research with their culture and you feelings towards the Book of Mormon. Brent has become one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham. Thank you Brentyou are certainly one of the true Saturdays Warriors Thank you Mormonstories.org I am glad I came across your website! She related all this to me and my companion. @BHMetcalf. Your excommunication reveals more about your accusers than it says about you. Elbert was the managing editor, and Ron the financial guy, so I had the impression that Elbert created the whole thing. Were they hiding behind Christensen for some reason? :( Will re-record hopefully soon! Tom, have you considered allowing John to interview you? In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hofmanns eventual plea deal. I shared this source with Mike Quinn when he was writing _Early Mormonism and the Magic World View_. He was basically threatening his entire existence. (paraphrased and likely not the actual quote from Murder Among the Mormons, Netflix documentary). The failure of faith concept was very interesting, and I can only say but for the grace of God. I will start my question with a short story to add some perspective. Yes! Thomas, I can assure you Im living on the same planet you are. Great interview. Joseph didnt go like a lamb to the slaughter in burning down personal property he broke the law in a major way. He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. But are there any podcasts that go deeper in to Gnostics, esoteric teachings, metaphysics, etc. My epiphany also came suddenly, while driving, followed by a massive emotional experience. Privacy Policy. [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. What was most poignant to me was Brents description of his failure of faith. He has also served in the United States Air Force (Air National Guard) since 2004. !Cmoninstead, they were duped arranged for major amounts of $ to buy the letter up,bury it and then lie. Menu. Now that the new Netflix documentary Murder Among the Mormons has come out, it also validates the important witness that Brent was in this event. He was going to have him thrown out of the church. Part two was chilling as details we have never heard about Mark Hoffman, Steve Christiansen come out. Not because it marked the end of the University of Iowa's senior's prestigious and highly . I have that info direct from Mac himself. Movies. Do you know if the church took down the names of all the 7th East Press people? The interview was superb and the insight into this extraordinary life was gifted. The full title is: The life, conversion, preaching, travels, and sufferings of Elias Smith. Thank you Brent and John. I havent listened to MS for several years now, but with Brent being interviewed I couldnt miss this, and I wasnt disappointed. I need help with casting ZEE5 on my TV. Were they watching us? Or if you have any thoughts on this John? Ive always felt like crises of faith didnt quite describe my journey but Brent gave me the phrase that perfectly describes my experience. Thank you. We had some technical difficulties. As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. (The audio starts in Part 1 around 1:23.55) I did a little research and found a digitized & searchable copy of Elias Smiths autobiography. Historian Brent Metcalfe says he was fired by the church out of fear he'd publish something they didn't like. Few people had more of a front-row seat than Brent Metcalfe to the goings-on surrounding Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter, and the tragic events of October 1985 what would be dubbed as the Mormon Murders.. Thanks for the interview both of you. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Billy Hibbard, for instance, who became a Methodist preacher, recounted: I thought how happy must Jesus Christ have been when he suffered for sinners. Ive always wondered why the most ardently orthodox and pious seem to have the least faith in the divinity and omnipotence of the Lords plan. What do you attribute this decline to? I discovered New Approaches to the Book of Mormon back in 2002-03. Many years later in his interview with Dehlin, Brent Metcalfe tells of a conversation that he had with Mark E. Peterson where he plainly admits he was lying in his book. funeral directors southend; penalty charge notice costs; johns manville headquarters address; Hello world! Published by on October 31, 2021. LDS was newly brought to her by a missionary before me. Just curious if there is a link that has information about what they discovered and why they were ex'd or disparaged. Its done. Brent is generally a giant in Mormon Studies, and is a great guy. I was only 8 when Steve died, so I just remember his smiling face and that everyone, especially my parents, just loved him. Now, in the wake of 200 years of such scholarship, the Bible doesnt hold up much better than the Book of Mormon. Brent did Jerald make an official overture to church leadership regarding Hofmann being a fraud? Learn how your comment data is processed. What if we are all chasing literal meanings of words such as translation, ages and names while in effect they are meant to have symbolic meaning and by this to explain esoteric principles to insiders. Fixed: Release in which this issue/RFE has been fixed.The release containing this fix may be available for download as an Early Access Release or a General Availability Release. I served a mission with the missionary mentioned by Brent. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hoffman's eventual plea deal. This is one that definately left me wanting more. Jerald articulated his concerns in one of his ministrys publications. Indeed, the trivial matters that many theists assert as claiming the attention of God (even as hell is meanwhilebreaking loose) is absurd evidently too absurd for many to even grasp. Some people who study and read deeply can be more expert than others with advanced degrees. Thanks Brent for sharing your story with usand to John for bringing it to us. The Version table provides details related to the release that this issue/RFE will be addressed. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. When discussing some of the details surrounding the Book of Abraham, he mentioned the Tale of Onidas and Kitumen. I have never heard of that before and cannot find anything about it. He said that a response finally came not from Hofmann but from one of the Lafferty brothers who was apparently Hofmanns cell mate or on the same block or something like that. In Episode 497, Brent Metcalfe shares an interesting fact that when Steve Christensen was called to be a Bishop that he told his Stake President that he would never excommunicate a member of his ward and if that was a problem that he wouldnt accept the calling. It would have helped me a lot to know I was not alone. Im glad you found some of my remarks useful and thanks for the kind comments. But this podcast is filled with way more than you will get in the book or documentary. I love the podcasts. It seems to me that going with what you may think everyone around knows is right (even if it isnt) more easily allows for these kinds of experiences more than realizing there are differences of opinion and thought and then vying for spiritual confirmation. Ive struggled to understand the human mind in this regard. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Salamander: The story of the Mormon forgery murders. If you hadnt been excommunicated would you still be a member today? what happens if i ignore a ccj; Near the end of a presentation you gave for the ExMormon Foundation, you said something to the effect of: People ask me how Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, how he pulled it off, how it all came about. Life seemed euphoric until I was excommunicated from the church because I questioned and I researched. Because researchers like me are not taken seriously by them, even if we have serious and significant contributions. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. Talk about ADD. Riveting stuff. Steve Christiansen was my bishop in that centerville ward and I grew up with his children. He was enthusiastic about scholars allegedly validating his translations through secular methods (e.g., Charles Anthon on the BoMor characters and Michael Chandlers anonymous scholars on the BoAbr papyri). I think that the group is called FIRM, lead by Rod Meldrum, Jake Hilton, and Wayne May. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. But thats when he came across books arguing the truthfulness of Mormonism and began questioning the same. Brent Metcalf is entering his fifth season as a full-time assistant coach on Iowa State's wrestling staff. :). Charles, I dont think I threw the baby out with the bathwater since my examination of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures resulted in the same intellectual concerns that I had with LDS scriptural extensions. What did they accomplish by kicking any of you out? I had a similar reaction to the section about ADD. Allegedly, he expressed too much "support" for Denver Snuffer, although by his own account, he would refuse to follow Snuffer if Snuffer had said that the LDS Church had gone totally astray.The individual, who identifies himself as Brent D. Larsen of the Eagle Mountain Utah Stake, discusses the . SALT LAKE CITY Egyptologist Ed Ashment sympathizes with Washington anthropologist for now has escaped excommunication from the LDS Church. I just wish that I could undo everything. Despite this, though, Brent found the courage to keep his head held high and began delving deep into the issues surrounding the Book of Mormon, a topic that he had been looking to examine since the early 1980s. That piqued my interest in the whole sordid affair. I just saw the Netflix Documentary last night. As a teenager and still TBM I read some books on the Hoffman Salamander Letter and events surrounding it. I wish we could let go of the idea that a person can only be an expert in a particular field if they have a college degree saying they are. Brent, a sophomore at the University of Iowa, completed a very hectic. During my 7779 mission I served in two London areas, living first in Kilburn Park and later in Wimbledon. 515-294-6532. Powered by WordPress.com VIP. Once the Catholic scholar feels freed from the ostensible constraints of Catholic theology, it is questionable to what degree his scholarship is distinctively Catholic in the first place. Brent, are you still working on a Book of Abraham book? Is it paramount to understand all of these religious histories and come to terms with them or, Brant for people like you and me, would it be better to turn our talents toward uncovering and deciphering Gobekli Tepe, a stone temple complex built 12,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age in Turkey, built by the Watchers of the Book of Enoch and the Anunnaki gods of Sumerian tradition? Career Two-time NCAA and Big Ten Champion three-time all-American first wrestler in Big ten history to earn Outstanding Wrestler at the conference meet two straight years (2008, 2009) career winning percentage of .972 (108-3) ranks second all-time at Iowa 2008 Dan Hodge Trophy winner 2008 Jesse Owens Big Ten . Who does he think the last bomb was meant for? I was pronouncing words instead of just reading them. The name sounds so familiar (I was a Wandsworth baptism as a teenager in 77). It is important that we be critical thinkers and examine the sources providing information, in the same way we would want to know the credentials of someone dispensing medical advice, car repair advice etc. Thank you for this interview. What academic qualifications does Mr. Metcalfe have to authoritatively speak on subjects like the historicity of the Book of Abraham? I remember one time a BYU professor handed me a long quote to read out loud to the class when I walked in and I almost had the first major public panic attack of my life. Andrew, Joseph Smith dictated the story of princess Katumin and her regal father Onitas to his scribes Oliver Cowdery and William W. Phelps, who recorded the tale in two small notebooks. I was hoping you would have spoken more about the Book of Mormon and Abraham.