I mean, the honest answer is not much. And my favorite line of the book is, "The lawyer in me won't sleep until that one chalice, that one container, that one vessel comes to light in an unquestionable Christian context.". Now, I think you answered that last part. And so in the epilogue, I say we simply do not know the relationship between this site in Spain and Eleusis, nor do we know what was happening at-- it doesn't automatically mean that Eleusis was a psychedelic rite. It's a big question for me. And does it line up with the promise from John's gospel that anyone who drinks this becomes instantly immortal? But curiously, it's evidence for a eye ointment which is supposed to induce visions and was used as part of a liturgy in the cult of Mithras. I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. You become one with Christ by drinking that. We have other textual evidence. difficult to arrive at any conclusive hypothesis. And when I read psychedelic literature or I read the literature on near-death experiences, I see experiences similar to what I experienced as a young boy. It seems to me, though, that the intensity and the potency of the psychedelic experience is of an order of magnitude different than what I may have experienced through the Eucharist. And for some reason, I mean, I'd read that two or three times as an undergrad and just glossed over that line. So the closer we get to the modern period, we're starting to find beer, wine mixed with interesting things. The book was published by Saint Martin's Press in September 2020 and has generated a whirlwind of attention. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and improving So again, if there were an early psychedelic sacrament that was being suppressed, I'd expect that the suppressors would talk about it. President and CEO, First Southeast Financial Corp and First Federal Savings and Loan Director, Carolina First Bank and The South Financial Group To some degree, I think you're looking back to southern Italy from the perspective of the supremacy of Rome, which is not the case in the first century. And that's where oversight comes in handy. And the big question for me was what was that something else? In 1950, Martin Luther King, Jr. wrote " The Influence of the Mystery Religions on Christianity " which describes the continuity from the Pagan, pre-Christian world to what would become early Christianity in the decades and centuries before Jesus Religion & Mystical Experiences, Wine Yeah. So at the very-- after the first half of the book is over, there's an epilogue, and I say, OK, here's the evidence. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More So if you were a mystic and you were into Demeter and Persephone and Dionysus and you were into these strange Greek mystery cults, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better place to spend your time than [SPEAKING GREEK], southern Italy, which in some cases was more Greek than Greek. It was-- Eleusis was state-administered, a somewhat formal affair. He dared to ask this very question before the hypothesis that this Eleusinian sacrament was indeed a psychedelic, and am I right that it was Ruck's hypothesis that set you down this path all those many years ago at Brown? A lot of Christianity, as you rightly point out, I mean, it was an Eastern phenomenon, all over the eastern Mediterranean. The Gnostics did have continuity with paganism. You're not confident that the pope is suddenly going to issue an encyclical. So I really follow the scholarship of Enriqueta Pons, who is the archaeologist on site there, at this Greek sanctuary that we're talking about in Catalonia, Mas Castellar des Pontos. And he found some beer and wine-- that was a bit surprising. I think the only big question is what the exact relationship was from a place like that over to Eleusis. Not in every single case, obviously. 283. But with what were they mixed, and to what effect? It's really quite simple, Charlie. It's this 22-acre site of free-standing limestone, some rising 20 feet in the air, some weighing 50 tons. I appreciate this. The mysteries of Dionysus, a bit weirder, a bit more off the grid. Mona Sobhani, PhD Retweeted. I wish the church fathers were better botanists and would rail against the specific pharmacopeia. To become truly immortal, Campbell talks about entering into a sense of eternity, which is the infinite present here and now. And so how far should this investigation go? Because my biggest question is, and the obvious question of the book is, if this was happening in antiquity, what does that mean for today? General Stanley McChrystal Mastering Risk: A User's Guide | Brought to you by Kettle & Fire high quality, tasty, and conveniently packaged bone broths; Eight Sleep. And at some point in my narrative, I do include mention of Gobekli Tepe, for example, which is essentially twice the age of Stonehenge. BRIAN MURARESKU: That's a good question. He's talking about kind of psychedelic wine. Please materialize. Is this only Marcus? So I was obsessed with this stuff from the moment I picked up an article in The Economist called the God Pill back in 2007. Then I'll ask a series of questions that follow the course of his book, focusing on the different ancient religious traditions, the evidence for their psychedelic sacraments, and most importantly, whether and how the assembled evidence yields a coherent picture of the past. I am excited . So psychedelics or not, I think it's the cultivation of that experience, which is the actual key. BRIAN MURARESKU: I'm asked this question, I would say, in pretty much every interview I've done since late September. You mentioned, too, early churchmen, experts in heresies by the name of Irenaeus of Lyons and Hippolytus of Rome. And so part of what it means to be a priest or a minister or a rabbi is to sit with the dying and the dead. To sum up the most exciting parts of the book: the bloody wine of Dionysius became the bloody wine of Jesus - the pagan continuity hypothesis - the link between the Ancient Greeks of the final centuries BC and the paleo-Christians of the early centuries AD - in short, the default psychedelic of universal world history - the cult of . Thank you. . On Monday, February 22, we will be hosting a panel discussion taking up the question what is psychedelic chaplaincy. Maybe there's some residual fear that's been built up in me. The idea of the truth shall set you free, right, [SPEAKING GREEK], in 8:32. So how does Dionysian revelries get into this picture? Here's the big question. And what do you believe happens to you when you do that? And there you also found mortars that were tested and also tested positive for evidence of brewing. Not because it's not there, because it hasn't been tested. Tim Ferriss is a self-experimenter and bestselling author, best known for The 4-Hour Workweek, which has been translated into 40+ languages. So there's a whole slew of sites I want to test there. So first of all, please tell us how it is you came to pursue this research to write this book, and highlight briefly what you think are its principal conclusions and their significance for our present and future. That was the question for me. Now is there any evidence for psychedelic use in ancient Egypt, and if not, do you have any theory as to why that's silent? After the first few chapters the author bogs down flogging the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis and exulting over his discovery of small scraps of evidence he found in a decade of research. There were formula. So perhaps there's even more evidence. They were relevant to me in going down this rabbit hole. This event is entitled, Psychedelics, The Ancient Religion With No Name? Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of " tikkun olam "repairing and improving This 'pagan continuity hypothesis' with a psychedelic twist is now backed up by biochemistry and agrochemistry and tons of historical research, exposing our forgotten history. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. It still leaves an even bigger if, Dr. Stang, is which one is psychedelic? And, as always the best way to keep abreast of this series and everything else we do here at the Center is to join our mailing list. And we know the mysteries were there. Let me just pull up my notes here. Copyright 2023 President and Fellows of Harvard College. And nor did we think that a sanctuary would be one of the first things that we construct. Brian is the author of a remarkable new book that has garnered a lot of attention and has sold a great many copies. Little attempt has been made, however, to bridge the gap between \"pagan\" and \"Christian\" or to examine late antique, Christian attitudes toward sexuality and marriage from the viewpoint of the \"average\" Christian. And much of the evidence that you've collected is kind of the northern half of the Mediterranean world. [texts-excerpt] penalty for cutting mangroves in floridaFREE EstimateFREE Estimate All rights reserved. And did the earliest Christians inherit the same secret tradition? But when it comes to that Sunday ritual, it just, whatever is happening today, it seems different from what may have motivated the earliest Christians, which leads me to very big questions. So you were unable to test the vessels on site in Eleusis, which is what led you to, if I have this argument right, to Greek colonies around the Mediterranean. Now, what's curious about this is we usually have-- Egypt plays a rather outsized role in our sense of early Christianity because-- and other adjacent or contemporary religious and philosophical movements, because everything in Egypt is preserved better than anywhere else in the Mediterranean. Newsweek calls him 'the world's best human guinea pig,' and The New York Times calls him 'a cross between Jack Welch and a Buddhist monk.' In this show, he deconstructs world-class performers from eclectic areas (investing, chess, pro sports, etc . There is evidence that has been either overlooked or perhaps intentionally suppressed. What's different about the Dionysian mysteries, and what evidence, direct or indirect, do we have about the wine of Dionysus being psychedelic? So back in 2012, archaeologists and chemists were scraping some of these giant limestone troughs, and out pops calcium oxalate, which is one of these biomarkers for the fermentation of brewing. First, the continuity of the offices must be seen in light of the change of institutional charges; they had lost their religious connotations and had become secular. In the first half, we'll cover topics ranging from the Eleusinian Mysteries, early Christianity, and the pagan continuity hypothesis to the work of philosopher and psychologist William James. Klaus Schmidt, who was with the German Archaeological Institute, called this a sanctuary and called these T-shaped pillars representations of gods. So my biggest question is, what kind of wine was it? So if Eleusis is the Fight Club of the ancient world, right, the first rule is you don't talk about it. That's our next event, and will be at least two more events to follow. Wise not least because it is summer there, as he reminds me every time we have a Zoom meeting, which has been quite often in these past several months. This discussion on Febrary 1, 2021, between CSWR Director Charles Stang and Brian Muraresku about his new book, The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name,a groundbreaking dive into the role of psychedelics in the ancient Mediterranean world. Books about pagan continuity hypothesis? So there's lots of interesting details here that filter through. What was the wine in the early Eucharist? No, I think you-- this is why we're friends, Charlie. So that's from Burkert, a very sober scholar and the dean of all scholarship on Greek religion. And there were gaps as well. So I point to that evidence as illustrative of the possibility that the Christians could, in fact, have gotten their hands on an actual wine. I expect there will be. I'm paraphrasing this one. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More from The Tim Ferriss Show on Podchaser, aired Wednesday, 28th December 2022. By which I mean that the Gospel of John suggests that at the very least, the evangelist hoped to market Christianity to a pagan audience by suggesting that Jesus was somehow equivalent to Dionysus, and that the Eucharist, his sacrament of wine, was equivalent to Dionysus's wine. And I write, at the very end of the book, I hope that they'd be proud of this investigation. Which turns out, it may be they were. Because at my heart, I still consider myself a good Catholic boy. Well, wonderful. 44:48 Psychedelics and ancient cave art . If the Dionysian one is psychedelic, does it really make its way into some kind of psychedelic Christianity? We don't have to look very hard to find that. This two-part discussion between Muraresku and Dr. Plotkin examines the role psychedelics have played in the development of Western civilization. But we at least have, again, the indicia of evidence that something was happening there. So let's talk about the future of religion, and specifically the future of Roman Catholicism. But it survives. Read more 37 people found this helpful Helpful Report abuse Tfsiebs So much research! I wish that an ancient pharmacy had been preserved by Mount Vesuvius somewhere near Alexandria or even in upper Egypt or in Antioch or parts of Turkey. The phrasing used in the book and by others is "the pagan continuity hypothesis". CHARLES STANG: OK. If you look at Dioscorides, for example, his Materia Medica, that's written in the first century AD around the same time that the Gospels themselves are being written. This limestone altar tested positive for cannabis and frankincense that was being burned, they think, in a very ritualistic way. And what about the alleged democratization with which you credit the mysteries of Dionysus, or the role of women in that movement? And I'm happy to see we have over 800 people present for this conversation. There's some suggestive language in the pyramid texts, in the Book of the Dead and things of this nature. A rebirth into what? CHARLES STANG: Yeah. Now that doesn't mean, as Brian was saying, that then suggests that that's the norm Eucharist. It's interesting that Saint Ignatius of Antioch, in the beginning of the second century AD, refers to the wine of the Eucharist as the [SPEAKING GREEK], the drug of immortality. That is about the future rather than the ancient history. And she talks about kind of being born again, another promise from John's gospel. CHARLES STANG: I do, too. Because for many, many years, you know, Ruck's career takes a bit of a nosedive. Psychedelics Today: PTSF 35 (with Brian Muraresku) Griffithsfund.org We know from the literature hundreds of years beforehand that in Elis, for example, in the Western Peloponnese, on the same Epiphany-type timeline, January 5, January 6, the priests would walk into the temple of Dionysus, leave three basins of water, the next morning they're miraculously transformed into wine. Part 1 Brian C. Muraresku: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis and the Hallucinogenic Origins of Religion 3 days ago Plants of the Gods: S4E1. Material evidence of a very strange potion, a drug, or a [SPEAKING GREEK]. According to Muraresku, this work, which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? And in the ancient world, wine was routinely referred to as a [SPEAKING GREEK], which is the Greek word for drug. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . In May of last year, researchers published what they believe is the first archaeochemical data for the use of psychoactive drugs in some form of early Judaism. CHARLES STANG: OK. Now let's move into the Greek mystery. The Tim Ferriss Show. And so I cite a Pew poll, for example, that says something like 69% of American Catholics do not believe in transubstantiation, which is the defining dogma of the church, the idea that the bread and wine literally becomes the flesh and blood. And I think what the pharmaceutical industry can do is help to distribute this medicine. Although she's open to testing, there was nothing there. It was a pilgrimage site. So the Greek god of wine, intoxication. Which is a very weird thing today. So how to put this? Because what tends to happen in those experiences is a death and rebirth. And so I don't think that psychedelics are coming to replace the Sunday Eucharist. BRIAN MURARESKU:: It's a simple formula, Charlie. What's the importance of your abstention from psychedelics, given what is obvious interest. And I think that's an important distinction to make. It seems entirely believable to me that we have a potion maker active near Pompeii. Not because it was brand new data. CHARLES STANG: All right. The answer seems to be connected to psychedelic drugs. To this day I remain a psychedelic virgin quite proudly, and I spent the past 12 years, ever since that moment in 2007, researching what Houston Smith, perhaps one of the most influential religious historians of the 20th century, would call the best kept secret in history. But I don't understand how that provides any significant link to paleo-Christian practice. And now we have a working hypothesis and some data to suggest where we might be looking. I'm skeptical, Dr. Stang. Why don't we turn the tables and ask you what questions you think need to be posed? That's just everlasting. The same Rome that circumstantially shows up, and south of Rome, where Constantine would build his basilicas in Naples and Capua later on. You want to field questions in both those categories? So, like, they're wonderstruck, or awestruck by their libations and their incense. Now, that is part of your kind of interest in democratizing mysticism, but it also, curiously, cuts out the very people who have been preserving this tradition for centuries, namely, on your own account, this sort of invisible or barely visible lineage of women. So I'm trying to build the case-- and for some reason in my research, it kept coming back to Italy and Rome, which is why I focus on Hippolytus. And if the latter, do you think there's a good chance that religions will adopt psychedelics back into their rituals?". It was one of the early write-ups of the psilocybin studies coming out of Johns Hopkins. The only reason I went to college was to study classics. So to find dog sacrifice inside this Greek sanctuary alludes to this proto-witch, Hecate, the mother of Circe, who is mentioned in the same hymn to Demeter from the 8th, 7th century BC, as kind of the third of the goddesses to whom these mysteries were dedicated. And I think oversight also comes in handy within organized religion. And to be quite honest, I'd never studied the ancient Greeks in Spain. So now it's true that these heresy hunters show an interest in this love potion. The actual key that I found time and again in looking at this literature and the data is what seems to be happening here is the cultivation of a near-death experience. And her answer was that they'd all been cleaned or treated for conservation purposes. Show Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and Conservation podcast, Ep Plants of the Gods: S4E2. That would require an entirely different kind of evidence. These sources suggest a much greater degree of continuity with pre-Christian values and practice than the writings of more . And I think it's very important to be very honest with the reader and the audience about what we know and what we don't.