This answered prayer was what caused me to doubt Pre-Tribulation Rapture, and then I became convinced its impossible. Next, Jesus said once again one will be taken and one left. Luke 17:30-33(NASB). Thanks for contributing an answer to Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange! son in law, and thy sons, and thy So what does it mean that "the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city"? Luke 17:34 describes what will happen after the judgment. (32) Remember Lot's wife. A very important study that also explains this illustration is, Seven Signs of Christs Second Coming.. Who is being taken in Matthew 24:40-41? I know this has been years since the question was asked, but in case dont have clarity or others see this, I wanted to answer. (49) For I have not spoken of myself; but The Greek word for left is aphiemi which literally means to send and is used of a man putting away his wife in divorce (1 Corinthians 7:11-13). One obvious key word in our passage is "day"and "days," hmera. Like in the wheat and the weeds parable. they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Here is Jesus' answer to the "when question," which I have paraphrased quite liberally: The day to which you are referring concerns the denouement of the Son of Man on the "Day of the Lord" which the prophets of old predicted. of man is revealed. Here is a blog post that explains it in more detail: https://overcomingthetribulation.com/carcasses-eagles-and-taken/. The one shall be taken; by the Roman soldiers: and the other shall be left; being, by one providence or another preserved; which is mentioned, to show the distinction God will make in his providence, and to encourage believers to trust in it. housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. We must be faithful to the context which is Israel in the last days. 36 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. In this passage, Jesus is referring to those who would be taken, and those who would be "Left Behind". Jesus was not speaking to Church-age disciples but to Old Testament saints who understood the Old Covenant but had no knowledge of the New Covenant apart from what Jesus told them. They will seek to prevent others in believing the revealed Word of Truth and will persecute those who will receive it in faith. lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. The carcase is Christ, or the body of Christ; the eagles are the saints, or true Christians; these, whatever happens, will, with keen spiritual sight, always be able to discern Christ and his body, and to flock thereto. What I put forward is not my view but what the text clearly teaches. Luke 17:34 and Matthew 24:40 both describe events that will occur at the Goat and Sheep Judgment. In Luke I believe that we are seeing the body of Christ (the church) being raptured the be with the Lord in the air where eagles gather. At the rapture, of course, believers are taken. good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the This is symbolically represented in two examples. The word "men" is not in the text, it is only, "there shall be two in one bed"; and may as well be understood of a man and his wife, since it is not so usual for two men to lie in one bed; and this the rather more strongly expresses the distinguishing providence of God in saving one, and suffering the other to be taken and lost: the words may be rendered, "there shall be two upon one couch": that is, sitting together at supper, which was also in the night season: it was the custom of the ancients to sit upon beds, or couches, at meals; and they had a bed, or couch, which held two persons only, and was called Biclinium (h): and so this likewise intimates, that the destruction of the Jews would be at a time when they were thoughtless of it, and were eating and drinking, as in the days of Noah and of Lot, Luke 17:27. Im Matthew 24:28 the context is look out for false Christs, they are every where. If these passages are parallel, then the birds of prey refer to events evident in the heavens that point to judgment on earth. Is Matthew 24:30-31 about the rapture or second coming. The two great signs to Israel will be the sudden, global disappearance of indiviuals which we know to be the Church and the signing of a seven year covenant with Antichrist. Pre-Tribulation Rapture also is not true. When the righteous (think about righteous Lot here) are taken out of the churches of the unbelievers, then the Wicked are revealed as they will speak evil words against the believers who leave. Because Jesus Christ is the spotless Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world (John 1:29-34) by dying upon the cross, being buried and rising again as He promised (Matthew 16:21-23, 17:22-23; Mark 8:31-33, 9:30-32; Luke 9:21-22, 18:31-34), we now possess through Him the hope and reality of our own resurrection. Luke 17:34. Jesus turned to His Disciples and indicated that they would not live to see the kingdom for He must first suffer many things and be rejected of the nation. In this passage it is even clearer that Jesus was referring to His second coming because He said the coming of the Son of Man. This means the illustration of the two men in the field or the two women grinding is not about the rapture. 36 But about that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of Again, these fowl in Revelation 19 are the multitude of words of the unbelievers who will not believe in the true sayings of God when the Scriptures are opened up by the Lord to our hearing ears. In Luke 17:34 Jesus says, I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Lot, Hast thou here any besides? therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. Matthew 24 is answering a question by Jewish Disciples who asked about the end of the age and the second coming of Christ and some have assumed that the Rapture is not relevant in that context. in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this Luke-21:25-34-kjv. Thus eagles in Luke 17:37 could refer angels. One will be taken and the other left. We must be able to go directly to the Word of God and expound the truth from the Text of Scripture. These are events that will take place after the Second Coming of Christ. And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together (Luke 17:34-37). The ones who are taken are destroyed, just like the flood story of Noah, the flood came and took them all away, Matthew 24: 39. What was the role of Timothy in the infant church? Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. I was less than satisfied with the Matt. Some will hear and believe and come out from among the unbelievers (the dead body) who will not believe in the revealed Word of Truth when they hear it. (Matthew 24:40-42). If so this might help explain the 1.1 million non-combatants killed in the judgment that fell around 70ad and why Revelation refers to the Jews hiding in the rocks of the hills, wishing that they had died in the war. Two shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. One will be taken and the other left. judge him in the last day. Therefore, it is implied that the two are women. Why did the disciples have so much trouble recognizing Jesus after his resurrection? " (27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Jesus stresses the Necessity for watchfulness-, to keep ready, Jesus explains. there shall be two men in one bed; this is said agreeably to the time, the night before mentioned, that being the time to be in bed, at rest and asleep; for they that sleep, sleep in the night; and still suggests the security the people of the Jews would be in, at the time of their destruction. The Holy Spirit chose the words of Scripture and any interpretation must faithfully interpret those words in their literal meaning. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? Matthew 24:40-41; Luke 17:26-30, 34-36 Jesus said other things to the disciples about the Church which they could not understand but which later became quite evident to them. one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. English Standard Version Most Popular. (35) A good man out of the good treasure of the He calls himself , because he saves us by his death, and feeds us by his body, in his Church, Word, and sacraments . (Luke 17:34) The day that the Son of Man is revealed seems to be the same day on which destruction comes, the day when one is taken and another left. After He has defeated the nations of the world who attempted to annihilate Israel, He will judge everyone who survived Armageddon. And he said So I've been dwelling on Luke 17:34-36 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Check out ourBible Answerspage for more information on a variety of topics. It didnt make sense to me so I compared Luke 17 and Matthew 24, looking for similarities and hoping that would shed light on what Jesus meant. At the very same moment the head of the Revived Roman Empire will sign a 7 year peace treaty and Jews will be able to rebuild their temple. As can be seen the angel in the foreground is depicted with eagles wings. A good man will bring good things out of his heart while an evil heart shall speak a multitude of evil words. Two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. We are to keep His sacrifice in the presence of their persecutions by not returning evil for their evil. For more information on the Goat and Sheep Judgment, please read, When and where does the Goat and Sheep judgment occur? This is also called the Judgment of the Nations. That article doesn't deal with Lk 17:34-37. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and by John Dart October 26, 2011 Guest Post Who is the one left? Israel were the sheep in the fold but the Church was a future flock of Jews and Gentiles, all one in Christ. How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates. Each Book adds a little more detail to the questions His Disciples asked of Jesus about His coming Kingdom "when . It is taken to mean that one day believers will be secretly "raptured" away and the rest will be "left behind." What's the problem here, you ask? Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together., The eagles are farsighted birds , spiritually far sighted individuals are likened to eagles and will be taken along "for salvation" and will gather together where the body is," to the Spiritual Wedding Feast prepared by the King - "God." Luke makes allusion to the same people but instead of "taken" (as appears in the NASB of Matthew) Luke mentions the "destruction" of those at the time of the flood (Luke 17:27, NASB). They will show that they do not know the Lord by their evil words and actions against those who will receive the Word of Truth in faith. It is true that when the Lord comes after the Tribulation He will judge the ungodly. 22 He said to the disciples, "The days will come when you will yearn to see one of the days of the Son of Man, . That judgment is the Goat and Sheep Judgment. The believers that are taken are not to look back (remember Lots wife) to their churches but just leave it all behind. Jesus indicates that the world will be evil like the days of Noah and like the days of Lot. In one case those left are judged and in the other case those left are blessed! Those whom Jesus said would be left would be those who heeded the warning and fled to the mountains. Eagles go for bodies, vultures go for corpses. , 37 "And they answered and said to Him, Where, Lord? So He said to D) A Literal 1000-Year Millennium The Bible describes a future, 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 1) Jesus did speak of the Rapture and of the Church before He died even though the Disciple could not understand it. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.. 24 answer, and I originally didn't see the Luke 17 answer on CSE. desolation is near. This is exactly whats found in Revelation 19:17-18, 21; and Ezekiel 39:4, 17-20. 2 It would be better for him if a millstone [as large as one turned by a donkey] were hung around his neck and he were hurled into the sea, than . Alstorph. We must follow Jesus in His footsteps and go away from the congregations of unbelievers in this coming time. A lot seems to be happening in a very short scope of time. Mark 13, Luke 17:20 - 37 and Matthew 24-25 are the Words of Jesus giving His Olivet Discourse. To make things worse the NET Bible has added the word "dead" which is not in the Greek text. daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of Again, we learn that the people taken out of the city were the saved. 2) The Great Tribulation at Point 3. One day many years ago, I prayed earnestly to understand Jesus answer in Luke 17:37, and He answered my prayer using Scripture. Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy Here is my translation of Luke 17:22-37. whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you We must also leave the churches of the unbelievers in this coming time or be consumed in the iniquity of the city as we may render evil for their evil if we stay too long. . Any duration. He is speaking to Israel about the signs of the end of the age and His coming. (1-2) The danger of stumbling another. Their own words will come back upon them to destroy them. For all this His anger is not turned away, But His hand [is] stretched out still. Points 10 and 11 (Luke 17:34-35) say that "one will be taken and the other left" and this is the Rapture. Revelation 14:10 KJV (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the Below you will see three different translations of the original Greek Koine. and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in It is true that the parable of the Net catching good and bad fish teaches that the bad fish will be first cast away and the good fish will remain for the kingdom at the coming of the Lord. days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and "( Matthew 24:38 NRSV, Luke 17:26). they wearied themselves to find the door. 37 "Where, Lord?" they asked. Does God expect me to live with a physically abusive spouse. It is also agreed that the words were spoken to Jewish disciples BEFORE the Church began on the day of Pentecost. On the other hand, Daniel Dahlberg pointed out an alternative translation, e.g., King James Bible: And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? The prince of this world.those who love the preeminence (love to be first) among the churches will have nothing to do with Him as they will come forth to persecute those who will receive His words and exercise their authority over the churches as they will act like Diotrephes did. Perhaps it means that the ones taken will be disenfranchised, their goods confiscated and their rights terminated as a "felony". Jesus didnt say it was the Rapture. It is described in Matthew 25:31-46. One will be taken the other left (Mt 24:40-41). The people "left behind" - These are non Christians. In Luke 17:28-33 what does Jesus mean by "save his life" and "lose his life"? First, I found Matthew 24:28almost verbatim. John 14:29-31 KJV (29) And now I have told you before it come to to them, and shut to the door. saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; Some use Luke 17:34-36 to teach the secret rapture belief but to understand the complete picture of this passage, we need to read the verses before and after. However, I am dissatisfied with the answers given, as they are either "off the wall", or "I don't know-but I think this". To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (Luke 17:2830). And he said unto them, wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together (Luke 17:37). 37 For as the days of Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. All the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven are the multitude of words that will fly out of the mouths of all the unbelievers in this coming time.and it is by our words that we are justified and it is by our own words that we are condemned. the mouth speaketh. Two men walking up a hill,/ One disappears and one's left standing still;/ I wish we'd all been ready. replied to them, Where the dead body[e] is, there the vultures will Considering the context starts several verses earlier, nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' eg. indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the (7) For the mystery of iniquity he might be revealed in his time. the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of In Luke 24:13, two apostles are mentioned. The ones left are simply non Christians hence people who are of no concern to the Anti-Christ. The "brightness of His presence" = the keeping of His sacrifice (the Lamb) in our lives in the persecution by not returning evil for their evil. But, we must also "Arise up" and get outjust as Lot was commanded to do. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Again in the Lords high priestly prayer Jesus prayed: Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one (one Body in Christ); as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me (John 17:20-21). For example, it is important to notice that in Luke 17:22 we are told that Jesus referred to the days of the Son of Man, and He did it again in Luke 17:30. Arise, let us go hence.*. Real Questions. In Luke 17, as you can see there is no indication whatsoever that the final separation of the saved and lost will be done in any secretive manner. THE RAPTURE, A SECRET UNTIL JESUS CHRIST REVEALED IT TO PAUL Attempting to argue against those who say Jesus never preached about the Rapture, people will take Jesus' words in Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 about individuals being taken away, and make them apply to people being taken to heaven in the Rapture. The question we are to consider in this paper is the interpretation of part of the Lords words in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24:1-44) and the Lords answer to the Pharisees question, When the kingdom of God should come? in Luke17:20.