But I am also free to point out his behavior looks sociopathic if one has spent enough time looking into sociopathic behaviors. What I dont get is why Hillsong and Assemblies of God (James River Church), who have extremely different views on women in the church would even consider someone like Mark Driscoll as a special speaker. Having heard MDs messages for several years now, I believe he is trying to lead people into thinking its about him. they warm up to stone people like baseball players and lay their coats at the feet of saul to show he is the alpha. (I would have thought he was the lazy one who didnt want to get his hands dirty by actually doing anything but talking a lot), takes it from daniel where god becomes man, if you saw Jesus you would not likely see him as you expect. Persecuted, but You cant criticize me for a moment. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And I saw it. Thanks for that recommendation. I think older people ignored the bad boy Driscoll because he seemed to be reaching the young people. Welcome Home to Church Online! The 38-year-old "Tomb Raider" beauty has been fighting nonstop with Pitt over his parents' and siblings' dedication to a church with a hate-mongering pastor who rails against gays and preaches that homosexuality dishonors God. James River Church attenders should google What happens if you get a bad teacher. That would be terrible. I used to buy into this,thinking it is such wisdom to see ourselves in the examples of scripture, until I realized that we never seem to see ourselves as the villain. I couldnt get through Marks sermon.so what was coming up for me during Pastor Lindells introduction was the idea of the Karpman Drama Triangle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle (Persecutor/Rescuer/Victim roles that people bounce around in during unhealthy interactions.) I also find him vulgar and misogynistic, so I dont see him as ever having been qualified to start with. You are so spot on. Most of all we want people to know that God loves and cares for them, the church said. He faces re-election April 7. I hope you encourage them to visit TWW. They worked hard to get where they are and make the assocations that would help them. Did he have liveried Armorbearers blowing long trumpets before him to announce how HUMBLE(TM) he was (chuckle chuckle)? Whats worse, total lack of good character. You might be interested in this post from this recent post at Stand Firm, an Anglican blog, regarding Hillsong. I asked people who were about as famous (if that is what you call it) as him what they thought. It takes at least 6 months before you start seeing things clearly. Whatever is going through Marks head, he is bent on getting people to listen to him again and to be heard. that is not walking in love that is running a business, and i am not a judge. https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/. Was Pastor Lindells statement just a slip or an attempt to rewrite history? The authentic community I was referring to is the it term/concept in megas for 2015. I sometimes think the man has no friends, but if he does, they should help him now. (Jesus is a pastor?) Maybe that offends me and not you because I believe he lied all along about Jesus Christ and I am hoping to convince people of that? I dont think theres been any repentance at all. There is a very strong argument for both priests and politicians to have both life and work experience before they enter the fray, however this is the age of the career priest and pollie. The Stronger Men's Conference exists to empower and motivate men to live out God's view of manhood and be the best husbands, fathers, and leaders God has called them to be! As Lydia has wisely pointed out, cult survivors are all at different stages in their recovery. Did Driscoll forget about the part where Saul went away for years after his conversion. people have said to stay involved in churches to keep them encouraged to follow the Lord and speak up if they are going away towards money and corruption, that is no longer even possible, you can get shunned slandered and prob threats to your life for speaking up anymore. we see this in culture and politics all the time. Steven Reed, Stephens' opponent, had an easier time answering. How can they do that? . They just have to shamelessly scam more money in the name of Jesus. We would be interested in any thoughts you may have regarding Mark Driscoll's message. shuning is not always done professionally as in TVC but so often done whisperingly in churches but the effect is the same to the person shunned. I dont think many realize that in order to have real repentance they would have to give all that up. Gateway also directly lifted the slogan every number has a name, every name has a story.. spiel verbatim from Perry Nobles NewSpring to try to distract from the reality that every member is seen as a giving unit number (no attribution to Perry, of course). Yet its everywhere in the US and Australia. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Popularity and attention of the masses is not the right motive for serving the Lord. Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. I strongly recommend the brief article by Jon Zens at Searching Together entitled Going to the Root Mark Driscoll and the Celebrity System. CCHD encourages individuals who were present at the high-capacity event over the weekend to monitor for symptoms of COVID-19 for 14-days from the event date and seek medical attention if symptoms develop., Church officials defended themselves in a statement issued to KYTV-KSPR, noting that despite what the images show, we take seriously the safety and health of those who attend our services.. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. rocks are flying people are shouting opposition and accusations., in christian language christians are like sheep, opponents are like wolves, alpha, saul. kinda like a person who has been abused i think, they sometimes have to get past that people may judge them for being stupid for falling for it, or they have to reconcile with the results of them speaking out, shunning, slander ie: the church calls them heretics because they dont attend anymore. I think that explains a lot of it. @ sam: He repeated what he has said in the past: He believes if the issue is to be addressed it should be done at the federal level. If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, they have something to hide. I am not the judge of the hearts of men, but God has given us clues to the genuine presence of the Spirit, and I did not see it. In case this was not a rhetorical question, jamesriver.org [email protected] (417) 581-5433; At James River Assembly we're focused.Upward in Worship, Inward in Commitment and Outward in Evangelism. He fails all or almost all the qualifications laid out for that role as outlined in the New Testament. In October, he resigned as head pastor from Mars Hill, a Seattle megachurch with a Sunday attendance of 13,000. As I was getting ready for church last Sunday morning, I quickly checked my Facebook feed for any news and saw the this headline (see screen shot below): I 'shared' the article from an Australian news source, along with a comment: "Mark Driscoll needs to step away from the microphone for a long season of contemplation.". So as long as Driscoll can provide entertainment and ratings, Pentecostals will continue to book him. I have heard Marks message several times now and have some concerns. Maybe Driscoll feels a notch above Paul since hes not called for any ones death? Whats the worst import/export that youve seen? Did this evil plot involve the use of ninjas or leprechauns? To tell, perhaps? I was mainly trying to establish there is a difference between lovable Hollywood Che and reality Che. Whats the worst import/export that youve seen? Also it is not where you sit in rows and hear a weekly lecture. At some point, with enough outcry and rage from outside, they may hopefully see it as you did looking up at that 3 x 5 card on your bulletin. Under the circumstances, Mark Driscoll needs a time out, huh? Many teach that when Paul said he was chief of all sinners he was claiming to be as evil as he always was. I saw many warnings but there seemed to be some explanation for most of it. They dont (want to) get it. There is no uncertainty in that. especially i want to comment Bills comment: A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. i have seen this with great fruit but sooner or later they seem to join a church and then get into the organized one leader concept of church, usually a small church and then i have seen the vision they had and the practice of each one seeking the Lord individually disapear and be replaced by how to organize and raise funds to do more in the name of the Lord. he (stephen) probably had a ministry, forgiving means you transfer judgment to Jesus, thats what he does, (stephen transfers it to jesus to judge paul), words fail me, but a wrote a bunch which should be up soon lol, i tweeted: According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. For mr. driscoll to change the whole meaning of this into the sponge was probably really used as toilet paper because he did some study in some far away country is to bring doubt to Gods prophecies and the fulfilment of them. It is certainly understandable we would see it differently. "Martin Luther, the great reformer, said this: 'If you preach the gospel in all aspects with the exception of the issues which deal specifically with your time you are not preaching the gospel at all.' How can they do that? Albuquerque Blue wrote: Im honored that Marks here so I dont want anybody reading what Im saying as some kind of disclaimer or apology. Its all good until (insert question or issue). If anything, Chandler has to present himself as the UnMark to a degree that few connect dots. I present to you James River church in Springfield Missouri this past weekend. As far as people moving into ministry later in life, one would hope they had left that life behind and were new creations in Christ. We will definitely check it out. I dont view it as cynicism although I do joke about it that way around Christians to head off the backlash. some things i noticed are in (parenthesis) @ Bridget: I would not say Driscoll was a jerk. https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2015/06/12/how-to-respond-to-a-faith-crisis-establishing-and-building-trust/. Mark begins to describe what happened with Stephen in Acts 6:8-15. kinda like a person who has been abused i think, they sometimes have to get past that people may judge them for being stupid for falling for it, or they have to reconcile with the results of them speaking out, shunning, slander ie: the church calls them heretics because they dont attend anymore. Its kind of like that movie Winters Bone where the communities are closed to a fault. Many times it kept me from feeling like I was the only one who could see this stuff or understood how wrong it is. "A missionary is a qualified Christian sent out under the authority of a local church to an area of recognized need in order to pursue the work of the Great Commission." Analogously, there are certain qualities that police forces screen for, to hopefully screen out bullies who want a uniform. This is largely shielded from television audiences who only view a heavily edited 22 minute message. I have also heard the thoroughly abusive interpretation of Psalm 105:15 touch not my anointed ones, do my prophets no harm. Do I hope they change? They just want to give us a little more time and "context" to receive the brilliance. I am thinking that is no doubt true, but Saul/Paul was also a religious activist who had double crossed his former sponsors in Jerusalem who had given him credentials to go seek out believers for persecution. We dont hear about them so much, unfortunately, because they are not so concerned with informing the world about their humility. But MD has been a jerk as far as Ive read, not a criminal or anything. You would think that over a decade of Manly Man, sexist, dude-bro, preachers that people have had enough, the novelty has worn off, and theyre ready to get real about Church and the faith again? Then he could claim more fictional persecution. i think that Jesus and God are Awesome, the only crisis i have been having is in my view of the world and the church. If there is one thing I know it is that those around Acts 29 circles are now in Mark who? IMO, They are still who they are. I want to have the heart for the women in the future who will allow me to be their pastor that I have for my daughters, he said, and that is if they have spiritual gifts, and are called by God, and are godly, I want to help them achieve that intentionally and encourage that and be a support for that.. http://godsbreath.net/2007/11/07/qualifications-for-pastors/, A few items: A preacher is not to be- (He repented quite often in the past when some were afraid to put his vulgarity on their conference stages.Piper shilled for "repentance"). I had been a pastor and fell horribly due to pride, arrogance, self centeredness, fear of man, desire for fame, etc. "Addressing this topic or the subject of the upcoming vote from the pulpit is not against the law in this country, although it may be in the future," Lindell said in the sermon. . If a pastor makes a statement denying allegations, its a lie. Its easy to be friendly, humble, attentive, polite, , to your peers and to your superiors. Actually are pews still in general use? They are showered with gifts and once you relinquish your highly prized contact data more gifts will follow to your home address. 33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, He later boasts that he did not immediately go get instruction from the apostles in Jerusalem, but he does not say exactly why. AFter the persecution and time in Antioch, Barnabus seems to make a decision on his own to go to Tarsus to find Paul. Forgive him? ATB I have read many accounts that his nickname throughout life was el chancho (pig). As much as I distrust Acts29 and the YRR, and as much as many see Matt Chandlers action as mere damage control, at least he admitted that they screwed up, and there is still hope that he really meant it and that they will really act differently in the future because theyve learned something. However, with such a massive back door spanning 15 years, I still think more exiles should be speaking up for the good of the current and future naives. James River Church is a multi-site church that exists to impact the lives of people through relevant teaching,. By and large, our local churches have been great examples of staying emotionally connected while protecting one another in this pandemicthis example does not do those congregations justice., I stg we're the dumbest country in world. I know that tens of thousands left GW before I did and they walked away without the decency to help others. I told him that. Connect With Us! I felt like an idiot after I said that. The hyper romanticized cinematic version of the uber cool Che trumps the reality of his bloody terrorist tactics and the horrors and oppression that his brand of communism inflicted on others. Weve got enough local crazy around here, we dont need Mark Driscoll and his He-Man Woman-Hating Circus. This one was different. Dont you want to be a part of that? And the same shtitck but did not call them atmostphere teams but hosts. Welcome to the James River Church YouTube Channel where you will find weekly encouraging sermons from Pastor John Lindell and others! His messages change in content, but not in root meaning. Did he write (with $200k ResultSource juice job) a Best-Seller on His Humility (chuckle chuckle)? Personally I do not believe God would ever anoint a blatant false teacher. yelling at the referees for too many seasons. was paul asking for forgiveness? Or is it just a GW thing? Nancy, i think theres a lot of truth to what you say, and its more than posdible that people he was addressing in his letters knew at least something about that. "Homosexual sin is not the only serious sin. You are doing exactly what you accuse the bloggers of. @ Lydia: So start telling us exactly what in the blogosphere is false. "He saw it for what it was. I was reading related posts and noticed hes playing the martyr role as Driscoll did. Return to homepage. @Albuquerque Blue Because for me, it is the center of the practice of Christianity, and I had missed it. Even after becoming a believer he wanted more. (Not that I waiting with bated breath). My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. I am thinking visitors, right? Paul spent three years in the desert to become reprogrammed by God. The term was invented by Tom Wolfe back in the 70s to describe the superficial gliteratti associating with revolutionary thugs as a way to prove their bonafides. Hasnt it been around long enough that either people (especially younger guys) are sick of it, or they have finally realized its harmful or obnoxious. Wonder what else is in the Acts29 playbook that we havent seen yet! CAn you see him in some sort of corporate environment working for a woman? But guess what else happened? This has taken a toll on me and my family, as well as those close to me, the former senior pastor wrote in a letter posted on the ROCs website. You said again twice. They knew exactly what they were buying. Why should we be surprised? . I dont think Christians have to throw out common sense/reason/logic. I can forgive someone even without an apology. . i want to again put a human face on what Mark Driscoll and others in Acts 29 insist on keeping free of anything but CEO Business speak and mistakes that were made. If you become used to a certain standard of living, that does not mean you are entitled to that standard of living. in prison. And Shifting the Blame. He said that his hands were tied. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i7lv9oMjv_0&sns=em. Church buildings do not equal Jesus Christ. I have read both accounts that Che was short for Chancho and also a play on his habitually calling everyone che which is slang for pal/friend etc. Missouri church service Saturday evening. No ownership and everyone else is to blame. I think it is perfectly ok to say some people are toxic and avoid them for safety and mental health reasons. Because you worked with multiple megas you have a very diverse perspective that is invaluable. Totally. I really do believe that Driscoll has sociopathic tendencies. hmmm Great observation! @ sam: 15 And all that sat in the council, looking steadfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel. GW also exports as they seemed to pioneer or at least perfect the concept of having pastors write books for personal profit then when the books sell too slowly, they have the main church and all their friend churches purchase the books in bulk to give away to the congregation resulting in transferring thousands of tithe dollars to individual pastors. This guy had his audience eating out of the palms of his hands. Even his outrageous speak was a game where he would then delete then repent then do againshampoo, rinse, repeat. pure grace are you or have been in similar situation to stephen? They will promise to give you an authentic community to do life with. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. "Homosexual activity will lead to destruction. All rights reserved. During this pandemic we have helped thousands of people with food, financial assistance, counsel, and spiritual encouragement. And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. Because for me, it is the center of the practice of Christianity, and I had missed it. James River Church's 2020 Christmas service. There was another couple along with us who knew a bit more about him and we absolutely amazed that this man, who could have been an elder, could not see through the act which you described so perfectly. A lot of people will say, 'I got that. The guests are members and attendees (because many regulars never joined). plausible they shoved that in jesus mouth, with that taste on his lips. (the death of Jesus on the cross as written in the bible is not enough, mark adds something more exciting and sickening like they shoved an a##-wipe sponge in Jesus mouth.) But we dont know yet for sure. God, I am running for your heart until my soul is on fire?. Are you not voting? I assumed that it was just me and 25,000 other people had no issue. One of the men had been to a conference in Seattle and was just wowed by his missional approach. John Lindell has spoken. 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Or that they were called to be what they are. (KY3) - James River Church responded Monday to complaints after social media images show little social distancing and few masks at its Christmas celebrations. (Those wounded by MD) must forgive even if (MD) never admits wrong. Far as I can tell Driscoll is arrogant, a lover of money, unholy, not above reproach, etc. While a decreasing quota meant less pay.