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I wont ever become a member of any religion/cult. [77][78] Recording devices are not permitted at the hearing. ", "War of words breaks out among Jehovah's Witnesses", "Jehovah's Witnesses church likens defectors to 'contagious, deadly disease', "Jehovah's Witnesses drop transfusion ban", "Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped", "Discipline That Can Yield Peaceable Fruit". Counsel may be given in situations involving actions that are considered inappropriate but are not considered to be of sufficient gravity to necessitate a judicial committee. Apostates are a figment of the JW imagination. WebGitHub export from English Wikipedia. I'm not saying she's a bad person or anything, she's just a victim of the organization. He says the Deep State controls the courts. You can either pay and watch it on their website or watch it for free on YouTube. The practice of disfellowshipping, particularly the shunning of family members, has been criticized by many non-members and ex-members. [99], When a person is disfellowshipped or is deemed to have disassociated, an announcement is made at the next midweek meeting that the named individual "is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses". Everyone and their dog wants to conquer America. And it is really for the good of the sinning member because God desires that they repent. Word of advice, you might not wanna let your wife know about your research until you are more sure about what you know. It's possible she was having trouble dating within the JWs (they often have limited options as there is a high women to men ratio), and so maybe she wanted to get disfellowshiped, experience a "worldly" life, and then marry before coming back and being reinstated. Thank you. My biggest regret as a missionary was the pressure I placed on folk to pay their tithing as we worked with families living below the bread line. Churchill went to the UN and got them to give the Jews political power, state of Israel. WebApostasy (289) 6.9 1 h 34 min 2018 13+ Devout Jehovah's Witnesses, Alex and Luisa and their mother are united in The Truth. Joseph goes over the wall to America. You need to have a tough conversation with her before it all goes horribly wrong. What he should do instead is use what he learns from his research to ask his wife questions about the difficult issues, like why the WT Society tells JWs to shun then turns right around and claims to not break up families. Franz resigned from the Governing Body in 1980 and was subsequently disfellowshipped on the grounds of Jehovah's Witnesses report friends and family members who are breaking the rules Three More Things Jehovah's Witnesses Can't Do. Why do people answer questions at meetings instead of asking them, if the session is called a study (Bible study, WT study)? He wrote a law: exterminate the gentles, nonmembers, to get their possessions and wealththis explains the medicaid scams and RF meters and cell phone towers and on and on occurring today. The last fifteen years I had spent at the international headquarters, and the final nine of those as a member of the worldwide Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. Witnesses do not remain present for the entire hearing. Did his wife go with him? Learn how your comment data is processed. Little do they know that they believe in evolution on a scale that is insanely faster than what an evolutionary biologist would ever allow. Who Thinks For You? Roe contains Smiths guilty as accused law. Why are you not seeing women reading the book/magazine of the session from stage, but women can read bible verses and give comments from their seat? You will find a lot of helpful info and people here. I was told to sell my home to pay the court fees. 1. He will not! [2][26][27] Determined to present his point of view, not only with respect to his having been disfellowshipped, but with respect to broader doctrinal issues, in 1982 he sent Heather and Gary Botting proofs of his book Crisis of Conscience so that they could chronicle the more widespread discord within the Watch Tower Society. I'm not in a position or place to see a physical copy or download a PDF. Individuals who I would like to see a class action against The Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by members whove been excommunicated, asking for their tithing money back. I doubt those whove been disfellowshipped or who resign would be eligible to participate. [28] They wrote regarding Franz' contribution to their expos on the Witnesses that his recommendations "undoubtedly strengthened the veracity of the text; we were impressed by his insistence on both fairness and frankness with respect to representing the view of the Watch Tower Society. [15] "Marking" is indicated by means of a warning talk given to the congregation outlining the shameful course, without explicitly naming any particular individual. WebBaguhin ang wika ng site. I will not mock him by fighting it today. I now began to realize how large a measure of what I had based my entire adult life course on was just that, a mythpersistent, persuasive and unrealistic. That's quite a rapid development. Youve both shown unconditional love through this whole time, a very evident virtue of not just the Lusks but others that have had to endure the same thing. I told them that such a decision was moronic as evolution is established fact and that it is not condemned scripturaly. WebThe Society reinforces its ban on any critical thinking by stating that individuals may be disfellowshipped for any action that "may involve or lead to apostasy" (Pay Attention, p. 95, emphasis mine); i.e., a Witness may be disfellowshipped for apostasy even if that person has not rebelled against Watchtower teachings! [86][87], All members are expected to abide by the beliefs and moral standards of Jehovah's Witnesses. They would not overturn other elders decision. [130] Upon appeal by Jehovah's Witnesses, the fine was aquitted. Ive had several conversations with PIMIs that acknowledge that the official doctrine does allow for evolution, though only micro evolution. WebThe disfellowshipping offense defined in the greatest detail in Pay Attention is sexual immorality or, as the manual labels the sin, Por.ne'a. [83][81] WebDisfellowshipping is intended to be the acknowledgement that an ordained minister had turned their back on the congregation and is no longer recognized as a minister of the congregation until they choose to return. I had to fight. The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. Most of us have not caught on nor listened to truth. I thought nothing bad of it. They are afraid, yet ten ancestors scream to stop Smith/Youngs terror. Losing his Mormon faith after reading the Mormon churchs own Gospel Topics essays, which discussed topics such as : a) discrepancies in the multiple accounts of Joseph Smiths first vision, b) Joseph Smiths polygamy and polyandry, c) concerns about the authenticity of the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham, etc. [88] Serious violations of these requirements can result in disfellowshipping (similar to excommunication) and subsequent shunning if not deemed repentant. [5], In 1944, Franz graduated from Gilead, the group's school for training missionaries,[6] and temporarily served the organization as a traveling representative in the continental United States until receiving a missionary assignment to Puerto Rico in 1946. I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. [10], Frustrated by what he viewed as the Governing Body's dogmatism and overemphasis on traditional views rather than reliance on the Bible in reaching doctrinal decisions, Franz and his wife decided in late 1979 they would leave the international headquarters.[11]. This is how I left the religion that ruled my life for 19 years. avoid reproach on God's name and organization by indicating that violations of the Bible's standards in their ranks are not tolerated; keep the congregation free of possible corrosive influences; convince the disfellowshipped individual to re-evaluate their course of action, repent and rejoin the group. Their verdict was to disfellowship me because I believed in [58] The Watchtower of July 15, 2011, said "apostates are 'mentally diseased,' and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings" and to "avoid contact with them". Pres Monson suggested Obama let him run the government during shutdownGod would not let Obama help LDS conquer the presidency. I can do nothing else. I use it to understand God does not want illegals or immigrants here. [6], Elders, ministerial servants, pioneers, or other appointed Witnesses can lose their "special privileges of service". Looking at apostate information is considered unforgivable by many and she might not take it well. Franz joined the Jehovah's Witnesses in 1938, and became a baptized member in 1939. Then, Jareds wife, Gwen, along with two of their daughters (Taylor and Madison) testified on Jareds behalf. [127], On May 31, 2018, the Supreme Court of Canada issued a 90 decision saying courts have no jurisdiction to review membership questions of a religious organization. At that time, five were excommunicated and one disfellowshipped; several other scholars since then have been excommunicated or First off, your wife is considered pomi, which means physically out, mentally in. This congress that despised LDS and would not let them be seated for 7 years, created a corporate seat of gov for Young in UT, territory! Please help. Search on YouTube for ABC NEWS Jehovah Wintesses. Not necessarily the dictionary definition of the word apostate, which simply means a person who leaves their religionfor by that definition everyone who leaves any religion to become a JW is an apostatebut the JW conception of the APOSTATE, both as an individual and as a group is imaginary. I did not do any research on JW from that point on until yesterday. [133] A counterlawsuit was launched by Jehovah's Witnesses.[134]. In church history, it seems there are three essentials that each church must have. WebA variety of controls can be enforced, from reproof and restriction of congregational duties to excommunication, known as disfellowshipping, which includes shunning. [2][19] Consequently, he agreed to a request to resign from the Governing Body and headquarters staff. WebTikTok video from Reverend Luna (@luna_de_lites): "Apostate Acosta just getting ready for a doctor appointment. [4], An active Jehovah's Witness may have their congregational "privileges of service" limited, even without having committed a serious sin. I couldnt help but think that maybe someone should curate a book of statements that are read at these church courts or some type of audio exhibit. "The Ninth Circuit's Eleventh Commandment to Religious Groups: Thou Shalt Not Be Liable for Thine Intentional Intangible Torts: "Jehovah's Witnesses given 12,000 fine for incitement to hatred against ex-members", "Reconnue coupable, l'ASBL Tmoins de Jhovah condamne une amende effective de 96.000 euros", "BELGIQUE: les Tmoins de Jhovah acquitts en appel pour des allgations de discrimination et d'incitation la haine", "Jehovas vitner kan miste status som trossamfunn", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_congregational_discipline&oldid=1142088215, Beliefs and practices of Jehovah's Witnesses, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles with unsourced statements from January 2017, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0. association with disfellowshipped non-relatives, "spiritual" association with disfellowshipped relatives, dating while "not legally or Scripturally free to marry". But the reality is they are a high-control doomsday cult and your wife is still drinking the kool-aid. For example, if the two or three witnesses do not persuade the sinning church member to repent, then we are to tell it to the church. Press J to jump to the feed. Unless they are reinstated, this punishment is for the remainder of their life, causing tremendous emotional suffering. [108][109] Disfellowshipped individuals can continue attending public meetings held at the Kingdom Hall, but are shunned by the congregation. Jws is basically a doomsday cult. There surely must be good people in Utah. WebIn this Mormon Stories Podcast episode, we will hear from Jared and his family about their experiences with the disciplinary council, and discuss their theories as to why Jared was Over all being disfellowshiped is excommunication lite. My advice if you're not interested in becoming a JW is that you start asking questions pronto: What was the great sin she committed that got her DF and ignored by all the community? I walk the wine press alone. In this Mormon Stories Podcast episode, we will hear from Jared and his family about their experiences with the disciplinary council, and discuss their theories as to why Jared was disfellowshipped (and not excommunicated), in spite of the fact that Jared openly defied the authority of his stake president. Distraught by how things turned out, David labored hard over the They know the apostate member is lost to them, but the can then say to the world we didnt fire them, they resigned. Franz was born in 1922. Holy shit.. for real? The following month, a committee of the Governing Body raised concerns about "wrong teachings" being spread by headquarters staff and began questioning staff about their beliefs. How? Its ok if you blame god. An estimated 70,000 Jehovah's Witnesses are disfellowshipped every year roughly 1% of the church's total population, according to data This is Smiths constitutional law. On May 30, 2010, at age 88, Franz fell and suffered a brain hemorrhage. Please feel free to browse and contribute to the sub while we get that sorted for you! Not asking questions is the main tool for succeeding as a JW. At the end it talked about the harsh treatment given Mormons who were driven from town to town. Unfortunately, you are incorrect. Look at Trump. They want to live like kings on some island with stole taxes. WebAnswer (1 of 59): A short answer: they dont, but the difference between being disfellowshipped and being an apostate can be confusing for someone who is not a Illusions there met up with reality. Does she want to get reinstated because she believes or because she wants to reconnect with jw family and friends that she misses? The Jews wanted the political kingdom but god would not give it to them. It's not worth it to have a miserable life. [10], The body of elders may withhold its recommendation for a member to serve in a new position of responsibility, though still permitting existing responsibilities. Then came Trump. Tell me, when you attended meetings with her was she shunned? Generally, disfellowshipped people are not allowed to even even say hello to their former friends and family still in the religion. On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. Herbert to obey UT law and submit to the US constitution. Your wife needs to learn to respect your family opinions, You family needs to know about the JWs as you learn more about it. We will not dig out for hundreds of years. You should be proud of it! By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. [121] Critics contend that the judicial process itself, due to its private and nearly autonomous nature, directly contradicts the precedent found in the Bible and the organization's own teachings and can be used in an arbitrary manner if there is consensus among just a few to abuse their authority. The subject of disfellowshipping among the Jehovahs Witnesses is seriously misunderstood. I guess as she wants to be reinstated she fully believes the doctrine? [105] Exceptions are made in some cases, such as business relations and immediate family household situations. Young took over and lost the 1847 UT war with the US army. Joe Slaiman was a district overseer in Australia and he sent the Society a letter stating the reasons why he no longer believes in the bible. We are slow to anger. When David turned to a local elder for advice, the next thing he knew was that the organization had disfellowship his father labeling him as an Apostate. [7] At the age of 37, Franz married his wife, Cynthia, who joined him on missionary work. [129] The fine was initially 96,000 before being reduced. Havent heard that one.? " Some laugh and say this is a WWII myth but I do not agree. I am look for people that love freedom, justice, equal protection of the law, truth and all that is lovely and of good report. How did they find out that you believe in evolution? Jehovah's Witnesses consider many actions to be "serious sins", for which baptized Witnesses are subject to a judicial committee hearing. Movements like Mormonstories are definitely having an effect on the church. So inconsistent. Obama wanted a 3rd term but the constitution would not given it to him so he gave it to himself. I'm so sorry for your situation, but this is gonna open a whole can of worms you can't even begin to imagine. Like any other flourishing American business, all about the Benjamins! You can tell them that although you don't believe in the bible or in creation, you need to continue as a member in order to keep your family ties. He knows of the economic bubble about to send us is such a deep socialist recession. A person who believes that a serious error in judgment has been made may appeal the decision. Grew up in Australia, stuck in Utah now. He was never disfellowshipped nor fully shunned. Act 1:6 the arrogant, haughty Jewish apostles cornered the resurrected Christ asking when they would get the kingdom returned to them. This monopoly becomes more evident when individuals opt to differ from the official teachings of the Governing Body (GB), a group of men, who view themselves as Gods sole channel of communication In 1984, Harrison Reed wrote a letter to the Dawn Bible Students explaining how he was disfellowshipped for going back to our Early Watchtower roots. I had to imagine what it was like being an early member who were allowed to leave Mormonism only when dead; like members of the mob. WebApostate v. Jehovah's Witness - Part 1 - Alex. So no need to get in a panic as if you need her out of that org today! Can you help me?" Jesus told them it was none of their business. To JWs "apostate" information is the worst thing ever and is Satan directly trying to fool people. Nowhere in 17 does it state the elected by the people have authority to caste the states senate vote in violation of Art. You have attended the KH with her where she had to be ignored by everybody and likely sit at the back (not by choice), but you thought nothing bad of it. This was covered rather extensively in Crisis of Consciencenot accepting established doctrine issued by the GB=apostasy, unfortunatelyand is basis for disfellowshipping. If your post meets our posting requirements (see: posting guidelines). Slim to none! We need to protect ourselves from Smith/Youngs revelation beast government. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, babtised, faded pomo ~20yrs in ~20yrs out. At the close of the disciplinary council, Jareds stake president twice asked Jared explicitly if he would agree to stop commenting on social media about his disbelief in fundamental Mormon truth claims. We realize this might be a big step for you, and we are grateful for your courage. This is the other side of the cult. WebSagot sa mga Tanong sa Bibliya Paliwanag sa mga Teksto sa Bibliya Pag-aaral sa Bibliya Jesus fought that battle and won. Our earlier interview with the Lusks where we hear their Mormon Story may be found here: 1131-1136: Jared, Gwen, & Madison Lusk: A Former Mormon Bishop and His Family from New Mexico Face Excommunication for Apostasy. "Expelled Witnesses Claim Group is Ingrown", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Raymond_Franz&oldid=1138789566, People disfellowshipped by the Jehovah's Witnesses, Members of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, Short description is different from Wikidata, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 11 February 2023, at 16:47. It says there that normal family affections and dealings continue when someone is disfellowshipped. Churchill, Jew, is claimed to be prince Churchill of Africa. ". And yes its a cult not a religion. NAD has voted overwhelmingly for women's ordination, but the GC is opposed, and the votes from divisions in the developing world will be against. But hey Im Active and trying not to spiritually rot like 1/2 the members. Surely that stems from freemasonry, certainly Sis Lusk in a room full of men is a throwback to early days that still exist in the church. Just go gently, dropping little breadcrumbs of information. Apostate is a term used by the governing body and JW organization, but lets look at the Bible list of unacceptable behavior. Amazing, thanks to all for sharing. Congress (wearing the Deep LDS State mantle) has catered to unpresident Obama and corporate president Nelson s shadow government cramming Smith and Youngs beast laws down our throats. I have attended many zoom meeting with my wife as well. Is that reaction expected on your marriage as well? If any objective, unbiased and irrefutable evidence were discovered that there is a God who created all things, then you might consider believing again. Investigation into the JW cult made by the Telegraph, mainly related to their cover up of child sexual abuse but it explains very well others things too, so you should listen to it. This is correct with the caveat that a letter sent to all elders in 1980 does indeed say that someone who is baptized simply disagreeing with the GBs doctrine and not spreading it can still be considered apostasy. [56] Elders usually try to reason with the individual before such action is taken. Franz refused the Watch Tower Society's offer of a monthly stipend as a member of the "Infirm Special Pioneers". Can you help me find them. WebAn apostate is someone who renounces their religion, but for Din he didnt technically make that decision. He clearly stated that he was not promoting his discovery to others. He must have sold his soul to Satan like a musician, PICTURES told about a few years ago, if Satan would teach him how to play the guitar. I believe Herbert is Dan. I need to be more careful. Courts generally do not scrutinize closely the relationship among members (or former members) of a church. Thats interesting. I will not fight the battle of which church or scripture is true. Even talking to a disfellowshipped person once or twice will just get you a talking to at first. Science says we all carry 14 generations of ancestors in our genes screaming, clawing, and extorting to do what they want. [89][53] When a judicial committee decides that a baptized Witness has committed a serious sin and is unrepentant, the person is disfellowshipped. Call it the deep state. It definitively can't apply to a non-baptized non-minister. Stop keeping company with 1 Corinthians 5:11 (Category: Shunning not based on the Bible.) Idolatry as an expression of apostasy. (Category: The eleven disfellowshipping offenses and Apostasy.) In 1973 -4, I read Roe and it was full of extortion on Texas to obey and implement Roejust like in church. How generous and non judgmental of Jared towards the high council I have no hard feelings great men. Webwhen one of the anointed is disfellowshipped: w76 158-159; w60 224; w58 478, 543. whether to investigate wrongdoers no longer associating: km 2/74 6. whether to take a disfellowshipped person to a worldly court: w73 703-704. Mitts father tried to conquer it but lost being elected. We will also discuss why the Lusks are disappointed in the verdict. On paper, this points to you converting in the long run as you have not asked very important questions in key situations. What chapter and subheading is this? Reading alternative viewpoints, particularly from apostate sources is discouraged. [53] If a disfellowshipped person is living in the same home with other baptized family members, religious matters are not discussed, with the exception of minors, for whose training parents are still responsible. Judge Trease did too. In a somewhat unexpected and heretofore unheard of act in the modern area, Jared was informed by his Stake President that he has been Disfellowshipped for Apostasy. Then he sent them to colonize other counties. I lost in courts until I put God back into my life. Nowhere in Roe does it say abortionists have a presidential pardon to murder and go unpunished. selling lottery tickets, firearms or cigarettes; working in an abortion clinic, church or military base). Jehovah's Witnesses state that disfellowshipping is a scripturally documented method to protect the congregation from the influence of those who practice serious wrongdoing. [17], At conventions and assemblies, and about once each month at a local midweek meeting, a short talk regarding "local needs" is presented. I have tried to cause Gov. Just came back from my last judicial hearing this afternoon from the kingdom hall. You sound like the kind of person who views religion objectively and on the surface nothing appears too out of the norm with the JWs compared to any other religious function. 24 related questions found. Smith received a revelation god had given the nonmembers fruits to the Mormons. WebOn September 1, 1980, the Governing Body distributed a letter to all Circuit and District overseers stating that apostates need not be promoting doctrines to be disfellowshipped. As long you don't talk to others about your non belief you should not get DF'd. My mom has made comments about JW practices my wife considered disrespectful. They want to get out fast when the bubble pops. WebHe was appointed a member of the Governing Body in 1971. Love it! Despite everything that happened to him in the last two seasons of The A corp is invisible, intangible, contemplation of law, artificial nonexistent person. [120], The only way to officially leave Jehovah's Witnesses is to disassociate or be disfellowshipped, and both entail the same set of prohibitions and penalties, with no provision for continued normal association. They decided to give it to themselves. I just dont see myself believing it and becoming a JW. They are waiting for armageddon when their God jehovah wipes out everyone who is not a JW (this will fluctuate depending on which JW you speak with, or the date of the magazine you read, but it's pretty much bottom line).